Stop Me Before I Vote Again

As Claude Rains might have said: I'm shocked -- shocked -- to hear that a big brand-name union has decided not to support Occupy.

Jeezus, what do you want, anyway? Their "leaders" are all a bunch of Democrats, I'm sure.

Here's hoping that the Longshoremen's rank'n'file know how to think like humans and not sheep, and blow off the diktats of their "leadership".

Oh, and by the way -- that's "Mister Subersive", to you. And, smile when you say that.

Mike, from what I've been able to gather, there's been significant good will between west coast Occupy and the ILWU, both rank and file as well as leadership. The ILWU has its problems (if you can forgive understatement), but it has also been willing to call for "illegal" strikes and shutdowns. This is still something that could be worked out, as Owen has emphasized, and if something can't be worked out now, then it would be wise to disengage in ways that leave everyone room to maneuver.

exactly Al

mike thank you for displaying a hair trigger :

just how much first hand union activity are you basing this on ??

your fast jerk response ???

the apex of progressive hot air :

"Here's hoping that the Longshoremen's rank'n'file know how to think like humans and not sheep, and blow off the diktats of their "leadership"."

worth a repeat :

"whatever you do OCCers
don't let this very slight confirmation
of decades of progressive anti union agitprop
poison a beautiful prom date "

One wonders how much effort OWSers have put into trying to get themselves invited into union meetings, as opposed to merely showing up at points of conflict.

It would be interesting to have some local or state fed try to import them onto a national convention floor. Of course, given the Stalinist electoral system still in place (imposed as part of the Cold War/business union model), that would be a tough fight. But "occupy unions" is a very suggestive idea.

Occupy unions I think lumps unions with banks and congress

These locals oughta be allies
not targets of a reformation by means
Of moral flood tides

Aloes taken "as is"

Pie cards and all
That's what broad front means

total holy submersion suggests union locals
Are dens of iniquity to OCCers

like saloons for Carrie nation And her ilk

Reform of union Stalinism simply mis directs energy

Let the union members determine when and if that is necessary
Union by union

Unions for unionists
Self determination

Non interference in u ion internal affairs

Stuff like that oughta be scripture round here

Now of course I respect md here
And know where he's coming from

Unions are my passion

As Blanche dubious might say

We all knew this would happen. Once it became evident that the Occupy movement wouldn't do the donkle's bidding, the donkle would kick 'em to the curb.

jtg
this is not likely to prove
to be an example
of democrat party activity
one way or the other

i think the dems are far from determined
to kick the OCC to the curb

op sez on 01.20.12 @20:03:
just how much first hand union activity are you basing this on ??

I'll be totally honest with you.

Zero.

My entire working life, ever since I graduated college, has been under employers in "Right-To-Work" states. ("Right To Work"... B'wah ha ha ha hah. That's a hot one.)

My entire working life, I've been insanely jealous of people who were unionized. I remember back in college, reading the history of the US labor movement and learning about how all the important struggles were won by workers organizing among themselves and being their own leaders -- not meekly following the orders of top-down suit-wearers -- and thinking fuck yeah, that's for me. P'wah, some fucking hope that turned out to be.

I would've loved to have worked in a union shop, but there you are. I'm going to be 55 in March, and I'm pretty much slouching into retirement, so I guess that whole issue is pretty much academic for me, personally.

Nonetheless, it still galls the shit out of me to see the "leadership" of major US labor unions proving the biggest obstacle to justice for workers; viz:

http://www.sinkers.org/posters/unionmade/unionmade650w.jpg

Laugh if you want, but that's why I'm thinking that the Wobblies and anarchists really would've been the way to go, way back in the day.

But, hey, what do I know? I'm still just a kid, compared to some of you guys. (grin, wink)

Laugh if you want, but that's why I'm thinking that the Wobblies and anarchists really would've been the way to go, way back in the day.

No laughter here, or only of the rueful acknowledgment variety. And I can't fault the cartoon either.

I've had some union jobs myself. They weren't much different from the non-union jobs. About all the contact I ever had with my union was seeing the dues deducted on my pay stub.

I'm very sympathetic to Owen's stance on the subject, and I wish the unions were a lot more than what they mostly are.

Unfortunately, as far as I can see, they're mostly not. The question for the Occupiers is, are the actually existing unions allies or enemies? I wish that were an easier question to answer.

Monthly Review Press has just published a book titled Wisconsin Uprising: Labor Fights Back. The Afterword addresses the relationship between OWS and labor. There are some positive developments. However, a UAW dissident has this to say:

"Occupiers should be wary of trusting union leaders who have consistently undermined, sold out, and betrayed every militant uprising or cry for more democracy in the labor movement. Most union leaders in the U.S. are wedded to the prostitution of social ideals. Every union in the United States is in thrall to the number one pimp on Wall Street, the Democratic Party.

Concession and compromise to the One Percent is the M.O. of U.S. unions. Rank and file workers should be able to see themselves in the bloody skull of Iraq War veteran, Scott Olsen, struck dumb by Oakland police. Every day workers make heroic sacrifices to provide a dignified life for their families. Every day union leaders shoot down workers’ aspirations and incapacitate any chance workers have to shield their families from the latest act of economic terrorism.

Where is the union leader in the United States today who has the temerity to defy the capitalist oligarchy? For the most part, we don’t have genuine union leaders, we have corporate servants with union titles and six figure salaries. When U.S. corporations invested profits “Made in America” overseas, labor unions in the U.S. cut wages for new hires and blamed foreign competition. When U.S. corporations underfunded pensions, U.S. labor leaders forced retirees to make sacrifices.

The operable word for rank and file workers isn’t competition, concession, or compromise. The operable word is Occupy."

Thanx my

And the above troika of anti pie card -o-crats

union hyper skeptics
Are All well grounded in facts to say the least

But a closer reading of the CIO might help to see the dynamic of success here is more complex then flugs brief phrase might imply

The battle over organizing strategy will always be with us
Alas contexts change and change fundamentally

But one fact seems resident to changed contexts

Never isolate yourself from the wage earning masses

That is my caveat to the Occ

The mis leaders are among em for sure

But be suave humbly suave about approaching unionists

Arrogant appeals to the rank and file
Create needless resistance

Look the pie cards know their in a crisis
They are not the smug clowns of the meany generation
Or at least not a
L of them
I dare say no longer most off them

But you have to learn the protocol

Local barons in particular

My take and it's based on much pondeation and inside evidence

The union pie cards at leadt at this stage
can be profitably worked with

Pick your unions however
Some certainly
Are right now in advance of others
They are not mere stooges of the democrats

United front from below is a hollow notion

Either you unite lock stock and barrel
Or you simply move on to more furtive ground

Mjs
Youdon't know the have of it
Til you follow the trail of one of these beasts from the inside for a while
Rank and file insurgents are one perspective only

And the typical unionized shop
Where the union is it's services to that bargaining unite/job site
Is indeed merely a dues paying flock without a guard dog

Even at contract time little official contact with the membership occurs

Any difference the union made in conditions wage rates etc
Are in the past

It's as if the union cadre reep the benefit of an earlier triumph
They or their predecessors might well have expedited

But why are the members
Still payiing
endless tribute

That is one front

But there is a bigger one

Organizing the 70 million unorganized that oughta be organized

And there the unions are really ham strung

It's all well and god to shout

IWW

No one...no one
more admires Joe Ettor Liz flynn big bill H and st John
Then me
No one

But

The paradigm of sustained success was the CIO

read up on that is all I can say

In addition to rising shop floor activists

Two pie card names. Lewis and hillman
And
The funds and organizers from these two guys two great unions
the miners and the amalgamated clothing workers
Mattered at the precise moment of break thru 36-37
Add in changes in
Federal law

And public reaction

Much here is causative

And much has indeed turned into it's opposite over these past 75 years

The writings of bill foster prior to his public party positions

Which in my opinion ruined his effectiveness to the party

Established Mass leaders are mass leaders
leave em the fuck alone

And certainly don't subject them to party discipline

If the party can take an open member from obscurity by acts of mass leadership
That of course is a different mater...
At any rate bill foster was Possibly
the shrewdest American labor leader of his generation

And his conclusions after years of struggle
are worth reading and pondering

You may Recall
bill was in the whole spectrum of pre great war fights
And then the great war era changes of political context and then the post great 1919 war upsurge
By leading the epical 500k national recognition strike in steel

and of course he went thru
the steamroller reaction of the return to normalcy
this in part triggered

One of hcal settled conclusions after all these changing times

Militants should bore from within existing union structures
And participate in existing and emerging union struggles

The militant tenth acting alone
can not pull the class struggle forward like a team of canal barge
Horses

The inertia is too great

Only when the wage earners are actually in motion
Can militants take a hand and hopefully the lead
If by consistent effective fighting
They can earn the trust of those wage earners in motion as a whole

Never isolate yourselves from the bulk of the wage earning class

"Never isolate yourself from the wage earning masses" is certainly good advice. Do you really have the sense that the Occs are headed that way? My own sense in NYC was that the kids really welcomed whatever union participation and support they could get. But though it goes very much against my personal grain to bad-mouth the unions, it's hard to avoid the impression that the leadership has such an ingrained tropism toward an inside-baseball strategy that they're just not, at the end of the day, very favorable towards Occupy, or rather, towards the very qualities that make it promising. I'm sure there are some exceptions to this sweeping characterization -- in fact, I know at least one personally -- but I wish I could believe that they were numerous.

The union pie cards want to avoid any chance of an internal commotion

The alliance has to be as I sibuggest taking unions as is

Not about occupy the unions as md suggested here tentatively

At least not until the parting of the easy comes upon us all
And the pie cards go one way and what ever the OCC has morphed into
goes another way

For now the two entities not only can co exist they can co operate to mutual advantage
However there is a class based cultural divide here

That requires careful presentation of each to each

Now the class divide is with the membership
Most of the top pies and staff elements
have long since arrived at Joe college culture

Yes the front line organizers are a different story
And they
Ike the ranks need to be respected

I sense a certain high and mighty actions

Mike flugs cartoon hardly suggests a modest wait and see

After al elements of the unions leadership in manhattan
came to the support of the OCC site eh?