Stop Me Before I Vote Again

Now what is the obstacle that will prevent benefit cuts down the road? Are you saying that SSB's represent a transfer of wealth upward, like every other rigged game in our system? Then you are opposed to SSB's?

I misunderstand so much!

Now what is the obstacle that will prevent benefit cuts down the road?

I can't find any pictures of Dan Rostenkowski fleeing a beating from his elders and betters, but trust me on this. No flesh-presser will be safe. Any grandma or grandpa could turn out to be Nemesis.

Are you saying that SSB's represent a transfer of wealth upward, like every other rigged game in our system?

Yes, and no. The payments are real, but not sufficient and the payroll tax is vindictive sanctimony.

The upwards transfer doesn't depend on looting the payroll tax receipts. It's handled by the government issuing debt with one hand and buying it with the other. That's the sleight of hand that differentiates the Big Ass State from the component states and corporate fiefdoms.

Then you are opposed to SSB's?

I certainly am! I suspect Owen is too. The basic income is the holy grail on this. Lifetime benefits are easily achieved, and should be the rule.

There a lot of people for whom the daily grind will never be anything but a physical misery. Many more who need early retirement. The rest are overworked and under-compensated. The basic income is the humane solution; no means testing, no tax on income to "pay" for it, none of that bullshit.

I misunderstand so much!

Just wait! There's more coming.

amen to basic income, amen, and amen to balancing budgets on the backs of beasts burdened with billions.

(as to the ring-fencing tournament, seems like it'd've been easy just say "we'll pay that tax these two years" like shops do, just moving the money across the ledger immediately, if we're going to pretend to keep the books that way.)

Al:

So, the existence of SSB's including disability B's and Medicare is standing in the way of lifetime basic income? A case of the good being the enemy of the ideal, I suppose.

I am not old enough to remember when people didn't get SSB's but my impression is that people of all economic classes lived shorter and more constrained lives after retirement in the earlier period even though the average person may have had a closer tie to real productive assets in that period than is the case today. I'm thinking a farm was typical.

We all sell labor today and if we don't make enough to save, we face a bleak post retirement, as you know. SSB's are inadequate, yet many of folks limp along on little more. The threat of further reductions, as suggested recently by Dean Baker as a result of this now done tax deal, for example, is not just a debate topic. By further reductions I am referring to the earlier reworking of annual inflation adjustments which has by now shrunk benefits by a ratio of about $1.70 to $1.00. Each year the current formula shrinks benefits a little more. If we could only eat MFLOPS this would not be a real problem as their price has apparently collapsed in recent years. But we continue to prefer meat and veggies.

I know this is unwelcome blather and will stop, but only point out that by clarifying op's counterintuitive screeds in responding to sticks in the mud like me you may extend the reach of SMBIVAs sermons usefully past the choir stalls.

In boundless admiration. NC

no com:

let me be clear ...for once

we need to reward those who labor away for 20 30 40 job years
but uncle can reward out of his
transfer cornucopia
if i were czar
the system would distribute payments based on points earned thru an algorithm involving
time weighted job hours times some
easy to accept standard value added units formula

the points system would not as fdr's be based on payroll tax extractions at all
it would indeed forth rightly be deemed a producer-citizens "entitlement" like life time health services and creche thru 8th grade socialization and education services
a guranteed"head of household"
minimum dwelling at 18 and much else
boy oughta citizens feel entitled
perhaps some day uncle or big mama earth
could dole out social bounty dividends
maybe all prices could be stated
in stable universal units of account
maybe we all can select our off springs geners

seems to me we earth humans will be making lots of collective decisions we don't make to day ..and making em some damn way or other
but all i'm saying hee is this:

the ritual that ois the payroll tax extraction
is a farce once its taken as the technical equivalent of purchasing private insurance or contributing to a private pension
if uncle mediates the system has no nominal constraints
and if those receiving a certain stream of nominal benefits under a certain set of nominal criteria want to move the "real goal posts"...they can

its just class struggle
push counter push
ie closer goal posts
and more points per touchdown
if your pro jobbler
more distant goal posts
and less points per touchdown
if your a corporate class cyclops

the main other point

the flow rate of the benefits stream "now"
is one stream jobblers and retired jobblers will defend like vixens defend their pups

i note payroll taxe rates have been raised many times ...raised !!!!
whereas retirement benefits have never been lowered there rate of increase has been slowed
and efforts to slow that increase are legion and persistent

--alan greenspan used to lull himself to sl;eep everynite scheming delightfully
over this ---

i repeat try cutting the benefits now ..anytime ...and watch what these so called docile retired wage oafs of ours
turn into..."wildcats "
and if you think we lack age solidarity
just try splitting youngsters from
their grand pops

sure some deeply "wounded" types
and lots of on their own merit yuppies
might turn an abstracting back
on their old gray meres and peres
---are there not jobs enough for them ??--

but do not count on
the vast bulk of the raw young wagery
much else
built of pure sentimental slop
has disolved below the neck line
in post new frontier amerika
but not the working class family ties

no com
maybe u need to investigate more
and value assert less on this stuff

i'm making an argument based on

A : technical macro considerations

B : the recent history of class struggle in america over her entitlement systems (1977-2010)

carefully learn about A

and
more carefully review B

imagine a plan to introoduce intergenerational war
wouldn't it include payroll tax cuts and simultaneous benefit cuts
give to the job holding young take from the retired post job years old
annd make it a take it or leave it package ??
its coming pokes...one way or other

btw
this question

"Are you saying that SSB's represent a transfer of wealth upward"
is completely upside down

i'm
sorry if i'm that poor at communication
but i was suggesting the social security benefit stream is independent from the social security payroll tax stream
example the past ten years the surplus from the tax stream
ie the excess of tax revenue over benfit pay outs
has added up to trillions
all of which has been "invested" in special issue treasury "book marks"
that funded in large part
the war budget ladened deficits
of baby bush
-- or alternatively his richy rich tax cuts --
and of course "reduced "
barry boy's recession bbudget gaps too

but this is all book keeping ritual
made in immitation
of requirements properly placed on
prudent citizen mortals
but a sly pantomime condescending
for
nasty mooded
UNCLE ALMIGHTY

NC:
"I am referring to the earlier reworking of annual inflation adjustments which has by now shrunk benefits by a ratio of about $1.70 to $1.00. "
i take it you are referring
to the Boskin cost of living
index jigger - swindle
of dear billy boy clintons
middle regime years http://www.ssa.gov/history/reports/boskinrpt.html

notice that sly bit was ten years on
in cumulative nasty impact thru tiny
but cumulative rate of increase reductions

that
like price inflation based games in general
is often the weapon of choice for wonk-thieves working for "the man"'s long run best interests
as i mentioned Ally G
was wont
to beat off to this genre of slow forming rip off

the answer or i dshould say response
is simple enough :

they fiddled with the index
so we retireds demand a re fiddle back

the organizing of justly furious
the stiffed ex jobbler oldster folks
to attack the pol elite

this is precisely the grizzled goons
you NC
slobber over
with observations like
"many .. folks limp along on little more. "

i for one suggested at the break of the barry new dusk in america
bash the boskin basket of swindles

send out a make good check now to all victim-beneficiaries
and send out interest payments on same
and while yer at it barry
build a algorithm that pays on forcasted inflation not retrospective inflation
goal getting "old folks that jobbed hard for years into
"out ahead " not "catching up " mode

point here:
this is all ceremonializing the legitimacy
of the arbitrary

all these formulas oughta be reworked
as dynamic counter cyclical algorithms
old jimmy meade
suggested that back in 1940 !!!

my pal herb the third
passed this along to me

"Dear Herb,

BREAKING NEWS: Congress has passed a deal that extends emergency unemployment for more than a year. And the role you played in shining a light on the struggles of jobless Americans helped make it happen.

This is a huge relief for the more than 1.4 million long-term job seekers who already have lost their emergency unemployment benefits. But this deal comes at a terrible price: It rewards obstructionists with huge tax breaks for millionaires and billionaires.

To get their way, Senate Republicans terrorized millions of jobless workers—making them live in fear for months as cold weather and the holidays approached. Some of our jobless brothers and sisters lost the ability to warm their homes or put food on the table and gas in the car. Some working families even lost their homes to the Big Banks that caused our economic meltdown—all so Senate Republicans could get tax breaks for the rich. These tax cuts throw away precious resources needed for investments in jobs and will do very little to propel economic growth.

Senate Republicans have shown themselves to be morally bankrupt hypocrites. They capitalized on the hardships of our country’s most vulnerable people to extract tax cuts for their rich friends, like the top executives of Goldman Sachs. Just yesterday, they reported they’d be splitting $111 million in bonuses this January. They’ll save millions on their taxes—money that should go toward fixing the mess they helped create.

And we know this is not the end. Soon, the same lawmakers who fought to get tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires will be coming after your Social Security and Medicare. Count on it. They’ll say we need to have “shared sacrifice”—but they won’t ask Wall Street and moneyed interests to share in the sacrifice required to clean up the mess they created. Instead, they’ll come after working people.

If it wasn’t clear already, it’s clear now: We’re going to have quite a fight on our hands between now and 2012. We’ll need your help to preserve vital middle-class programs—and to beat back these deficit hypocrites at every turn.

Here’s what I’m asking you to do. Sign up for the front lines by pulling out your mobile phone right now. Send a text message with the word DEAL to 225568—we’ll send urgent alerts to your mobile phone when deficit hypocrites try to defraud the middle class by launching attacks on our Social Security, Medicare and more in 2011.

We must vigorously oppose solving our country’s long-term financial problems on the backs of working people. If the America we all love is going to survive this century—or even this decade—we’ve got to find a way to restore balance in our politics and our economy.

How do we use our power to escape caving in to Wall Street and moneyed interests? And how do we create the millions of jobs we need now and move toward a future of broadly shared prosperity? I don’t have all the answers today. But I do know we can’t keep doing what we’re doing now. I know we have to fight harder and louder and more creatively—and I know we can only win together.

Please pull out your mobile phone and text the word DEAL to 225568. We’ll keep you updated on our fight to stop deficit hypocrites from stealing our hard-earned Social Security and Medicare benefits.

Two years ago, working Americans had high hopes we would ultimately emerge from the deep, punishing financial debacle with a sharp focus on a fundamentally stronger, fairer and more balanced economy. We can’t throw in the towel and give up now. Too much is at stake. We’ve got to redouble our efforts and fight harder than ever to move forward for working people. And we need you standing with us.

In solidarity,

Ferdinand
President, AFL-CIO

ps herb give the rest
of yer struggle ranch gang
a happy fuck u
from all of us on the exec council "

btw SMBIVAers
brother Herb wishes all you
' nihilers and
sour pwog horns '

" a happy holiday season .....and
a royal butt fuck waiting under the tree
all tied up in red and green bows "

"The final vote in the House was 277 to 148 after liberal Democrats failed in one last bid to change an estate-tax provision in the bill that they said was too generous to the wealthiest Americans and that the administration agreed to in a concession to Republicans. The amendment failed, 233 to 194.

Supporting the overall measure were 139 Democrats and 138 Republicans; opposed were 112 Democrats and 36 Republicans."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/17/us/politics/17cong.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=a2

THE GRAY NAG HAG SETS THE STAGE FOR THE COMMING NUT CUTTER

"the accord also showed that policy-makers remain locked in an unsustainable cycle of cutting taxes and raising spending that has proven politically palatable in the short term but could threaten the nation’s fiscal stability in years ahead"
here is the clarion to what ferdinand above
mislabels as republicans

"... the same lawmakers who fought to get tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires will be coming after your Social Security and Medicare"
which fails to include
those Dembots dedicated to
hacking the toes of mcshitski jobbed "innocent rubes" in the coming
fiscal gap farce
playing on our flat screens this winter
from its usual venue:

the two ring congressional theatre of cruelty

...there comes a wild bangng
of cloak room doors ...
a sudden cross scurry
of eager players
in their stage PJs

can we wait ????

Owen, the blues-sing prog has a link to Nancy Altman, a guardian angel of Social Security. She makes the moral legitimacy through taxation argument and takes it into high church contract law. She does okay, I guess, if one accepts a narrow set of premises. But it still comes across like a waiter beseeching the bus boys to politely stand up to the owner.

Owen, any recommendations on where to begin carefully learning about the technical macro considerations you're basing your argument on? Particularly the notion that the involvement of the federal gov't removes nominal spending constraints? Perhaps a bit of a broad request, but we all have to start somewhere and suggestions would be appreciated.

bruce

first is just to get the macro
of the academy taught undergrads
these last 35 years
out of your head ...if its in there

then with a cleared head
ask yourself
what is the real cost of creating more
money to the fed ???

once your satisfied with the answer
zero cost

ask yourself what happens when the fed
buys treasury bonds and notes
extend this and you already understand the limitless capacity of uncle to pay dollars for stuff

now look at inflation ..general inflation
changes in the price level
ask yourself
why general inflation
ought to be so feared by regular folks ??

turns out they shouldn't be unless they are holding lots of dollar denominated obligations of institutions and people

feel good about this and ..well
you've got started

i like Altman's small eyes
but as u suggest she's doing her gig
thru a legal lense darkly

she has i suspect little notion of uncle's full license to make starkly various realities out of
existing nominal relationships

once uncle like a Pantagruel king
recognizes the reach of his "mint"
and the possible price level
block and tackle kit
he could order up for himself ...

all the FDR vintage "constraints"
will disappear
as if just so many bad retained farts
right out the open end
of the policy meme bag

nancy altman et stooge:

in 1983 "Social Security faced large, immediate shortfalls. "

"If Congress had not passed and if President Reagan had not signed legislation early in 1983, then some time later that year, Social Security would not have been able to pay all benefits as promised."

" Nothing like this is remotely possible today."

right not with 2.5 trillion in treasury iou's
but nancy fails to provide an economic reason
for holding these 2.5 trillion in trust funds
instead of collecting now from employess
cut in flow in half
by holidaying the whole employee side of the system
till we reach say 5% official unemployment
or better some target job rate

at the very least run down the trust funds eh
---
of course i'd return all those trillions myself to the payers or their heirs and assigns
plus jack up the pay outs plus plus ...
but that's just based on science and class sense not superstition and class fucking

but come on ...the social security system oughta have borrowing powers like a lot of state level agencies
to meet suddenly emerging short falls

and of course all levels of earned income ..at the very least oughta pay in
right now popping the cap off the employer side would make grand good sense as a start if you just never saw an opportunity to tax the well off you didn't want to pass up

---------------------

look we got a private and state level pension emergency round here
not a social security emergency
check out the pension equivalent of the fdic
PBGC http://www.pbgc.gov/
then check out the various state county and local plans "back up systems "
if there's to be a defined benefit screwing soon
its likely to be SCM public employees
-----------------

the great moynihan greenspan payroll robbery of 83
oughta be revisited by pale pink wonk scuts

the move to curb benefits was almost the end of reagans "dream " in 82
my man tip led a very straight forward charge
and won

that a completely un necessary payroll tax increase --on the carter era model --
got swallowed and ronnie re elected shows you what you can do hiding the poison pea
with enough walnut shells

the lesson taught from that intervel

you can't cut benefits now
but you can sneak up payroll taxes if you're
the tax cut king and shift tax burdens from one class to another too

and if you lay out the changes in benefit
reducing qualifiers like age
far enough ahead and use slow enough of
a roll in
the frogs may feel the heat rising in the pot
but they won't hip to the source ...so long as they have lots of other sources making their
mcshitski job class existence
a slow killer of a "free " swim

A short opinion piece from the provincial press:
http://www.telegram.com/article/20101219/NEWS/12190433/1020

And a comment on the piece from "CT girl":
"This is a good start. It would have done more to create jobs, however, if they had cut the percentage of Social Security the employer pays, rather that the employee. "

Does Mr. O.P. agree with CT girl?

"Does Mr. O.P. agree with CT girl ?"

no not at all with this:

"It would have done more to create jobs, however, if they had cut the percentage of Social Security the employer pays, rather that the employee"

the employer side tax ought to be left as is

feeding net cash into the corporate system where there iis already a surplus of net cash flow is folly
the employees will spend their cash
not so completely as the unemployed
but hey there's politics here too
we live in a job ethic culture

saying
take this you earned it by
the sweat of your brow and the sacrfice of precious waking hours out of your
limited allotment
is the highest form of tax cut

"The days of our years are threescore years and ten;
and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years,
yet is their strength labor and sorrow;
for it is soon cut off, and we fly away."